In this episode, Elvira & Eleanor speak about religion versus spirituality. And in this conversation, we ask you to consider what feels more in alignment for you?
*Dogma
*Community
*Conformity
*Values
*Catholicism
*Angels
Learn more about:
Elvira V. Hopper, Miracle Mindset CoacHealer
Eleanor Hayward, Holistic Facilitator
In this episode, Elvira & Eleanor speak about religion versus spirituality. And in this conversation, we ask you to consider what feels more in alignment for you?
*Dogma
*Community
*Conformity
*Values
*Catholicism
*Angels
Learn more about:
Elvira V. Hopper, Miracle Mindset CoacHealer
Eleanor Hayward, Holistic Facilitator
Elvira Hopper 0:05
Welcome to The Love Your Vibe Podcast. It's A Revolution of Evolution! You are in the right place, if you are a kind and heart centered person looking to learn new ways of showing up, aligned, authentic and fully self expressed. If everyone did this work on the planet, don't you think it could be Heaven on Earth? I'm Elvira Hopper, and I'm in the studio with Eleanor Hayward. And we are so thrilled that you've joined us!
In this episode, Eleanor and I are speaking about religion versus spirituality. And in this conversation, we ask you to consider what feels more in alignment for you? Hey, Eleanor!
Eleanor Hayward 0:53
Hello Elvira!
Elvira Hopper 0:53
How are you?
Eleanor Hayward 0:54
I'm fantastic. I'm really looking forward to this juicy subject!
Elvira Hopper 0:57
I know!
Eleanor Hayward 0:58
Religion versus spirituality!
Elvira Hopper 1:00
Yes, it is a very juicy topic. And I am going to read a quote from ideas.org. And this is actually 'what is spirituality'? And this is what came up. So "Religion is a specific set of organized beliefs and practices, usually shared by community or group. Spirituality is more of an individual practice, and has to do with having a sense of peace and purpose. It also relates to the process of developing beliefs around the meaning of life and connection with others."
Eleanor Hayward 1:37
Beautiful. So there's some similarities and differences..
Elvira Hopper 1:40
Yeah, yeah,
Eleanor Hayward 1:41
..there. Like they're pretty close.
Elvira Hopper 1:42
Mm hmm.
Eleanor Hayward 1:43
And for me, I think the difference is dogma..
Elvira Hopper 1:45
Yes. Dogma!
Eleanor Hayward 1:47
..which is almost like 'my way or the highway'.
Elvira Hopper 1:49
Yes.
Eleanor Hayward 1:50
Would you agree with that definition?
Elvira Hopper 1:52
Raised Roman Catholic from day two of my life. Yes, I would agree.
Eleanor Hayward 1:55
Wow.
Elvira Hopper 1:56
There's a lot of dogma, and I'm speaking very biasedly, of course, because I'm, I don't identify as Roman Catholic anymore, I'm just going to put that out there. We'll explain more about that later. But yeah, my, the Roman Catholic Church and other religions, too. They have their dogma, they have their beliefs. This is what we believe. And if you don't believe it, then you are a heretic..
Eleanor Hayward 2:17
Yes!
Elvira Hopper 2:19
Or, you know, what's the word a, an infidel? Or I don't know.
Eleanor Hayward 2:25
So many, ways, words.
Elvira Hopper 2:28
Yeah, yeah. So tell me, tell me about your take on religion versus spirituality? Like, I know you have a story about that.
Eleanor Hayward 2:38
Yeah. Cuz I, I was baptized Catholic, as well.
Elvira Hopper 2:41
I didn't know that!
Eleanor Hayward 2:42
Yeah. And I mean, we were more like Christmas and Easter goers..
Elvira Hopper 2:46
CNE Christians! Yeah! Haha!
Eleanor Hayward 2:48
Yeah! And, and then when we moved to Milton, as a teenager, my Mom wanted to go to United Church. And so she put me into Sunday school. And she basically said, 'if, when you're done Sunday school, then you can make your decision'. And it was around that time in my life when recycling became part of the pop culture, in terms of waste management.
Elvira Hopper 2:48
Ok.
Eleanor Hayward 2:58
And so that your, your metal that you're extracting from the ground gets reprocessed and made into a new can, you know?
Elvira Hopper 3:11
Oh, okay.
Eleanor Hayward 3:12
I was like ok, well, that's interesting. You reuse the metal.
Elvira Hopper 3:24
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 3:25
And with religion, one of the teachings is that 'you have one life, and only one life on Earth. And then you go to Heaven or Hell for all eternity'.
Elvira Hopper 3:34
Ah, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 3:35
Just, like, my teenage brain says, well, they must be packed to the brim.
Elvira Hopper 3:40
LOL Must be packed to the brim, I love that.
Eleanor Hayward 3:42
Wouldn't it make more sense? To give those souls another chance? To recycle the soul?
Elvira Hopper 3:48
Boy, you were a smart kid LOL
Eleanor Hayward 3:50
I just, it just made so much sense to me.
Yeah.
There's all of the.. I mean, I'm a woman and identify as a woman, and that, you know, even.. in the United Church, women can become.. priests.
Elvira Hopper 4:01
..pastors.. yeah, whatever they're called.
Both 4:04
LOL
Eleanor Hayward 4:06
Practitioners, leaders.
Elvira Hopper 4:07
Yeah, yeah. Not in the Catholic Church..
Eleanor Hayward 4:10
Not in the Catholic Church.
Elvira Hopper 4:12
No. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 4:13
And I.. [sigh] It's about sharing power, I suppose. And I just didn't like that power wasn't shared, in that way,
Elvira Hopper 4:24
Even as a kid?
Eleanor Hayward 4:26
Yeah.
Elvira Hopper 4:27
Wow. That's amazing.
Eleanor Hayward 4:28
And so I made the choice and I, and I stopped, and was kind of free flowing for a few years there. And was introduced to spirituality in college and my next door neighbor.. my, my roommate/housemate introduced us to the neighbor, and she did tea readings, and divination card readings. And I remember thinking, 'Oh, this is weird.'
Both 4:54
LOL
Eleanor Hayward 4:54
This is really far out there. But it really stuck with me.
Elvira Hopper 4:58
Really? Why?
Eleanor Hayward 4:59
Well she drew some cards.
Elvira Hopper 5:00
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 5:01
She drew the same card three times.
Elvira Hopper 5:02
Wow.
Eleanor Hayward 5:03
And she says that 'you have a football team of guides that are there', she says, 'And you're a teacher' and I'm just like, 'You're crazy. I'm studying to be a massage therapist',
Elvira Hopper 5:12
Oh my gosh.
Eleanor Hayward 5:12
I just couldn't get my head from here to there, that I wouldn't be a teacher like 'I'm not studying to be a teacher', just didn't have a framework to process that.
Elvira Hopper 5:19
Now you're teaching LOL
Eleanor Hayward 5:20
Now I'm circling around to being a mentor, which is a form of..
Elvira Hopper 5:24
Teaching!
Eleanor Hayward 5:24
..being a teacher, and, and sharing information with people. So that said, spirituality is a path. You know, when I think all religions have spiritual truth within them. Love your neighbour.
Elvira Hopper 5:38
Yes.
Eleanor Hayward 5:39
Forgiveness.
Elvira Hopper 5:40
Yes.
Eleanor Hayward 5:40
Share in community.
Elvira Hopper 5:42
Yes,
Eleanor Hayward 5:42
You know? and yet, it's, you know, all of the major world religion. All major world wars, you know, had a religious overtone.
Elvira Hopper 5:52
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 5:52
Through history, a lot of death and destruction. Still, to this day, over.. I mean, it's done in the name of religion, but quite often its power and control, and money.
Elvira Hopper 6:02
Yeah, let's face it.
Eleanor Hayward 6:04
[sigh] ..but yeah. That's just really frustrating, but it's very heavy.
Elvira Hopper 6:07
Yeah.
Both 6:09
[Sigh].
Eleanor Hayward 6:09
I want to share another little story.
Elvira Hopper 6:11
Sure.
Eleanor Hayward 6:11
That really made a lot of sense to me. I went to the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit at the Art Gallery of Ontario.
Elvira Hopper 6:17
Okay.
Eleanor Hayward 6:18
I don't know, eight or nine years ago now, I suppose it was. And there was a lot of information, a lot of content in the exhibit and was almost overwhelming.
Elvira Hopper 6:26
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 6:27
And not having a lot of context. But I remember at the end of the exhibit coming to this giant, huge, empty wall. And it was just like, oh, it's almost made some space in my mind. But there was one little painting on the wall, and was this teeny, tiny little painting of the hill, where Abraham had misunderstood the Word of God, and was about to sacrifice his son Ishmael. And the Archangel Michael had to intervene..
Elvira Hopper 6:56
Oh, my gosh.
Eleanor Hayward 6:56
..and said 'No, you misunderstood the Word of God. This is not the story'.
Elvira Hopper 7:01
Wow.
Eleanor Hayward 7:02
And I learned that that one story is at the root of the three major world religions.
Elvira Hopper 7:08
Wow.
Eleanor Hayward 7:09
And that's why they are the Abrahamic..
Elvira Hopper 7:11
Yes, yes,
Eleanor Hayward 7:12
..religions. And I was like, 'oh, isn't that interesting? That all of the three major world religions have Angels in common?'
Elvira Hopper 7:18
Uh huh.
Eleanor Hayward 7:19
As well.
Elvira Hopper 7:19
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 7:19
Very often angels are..
Elvira Hopper 7:22
Messengers?
Eleanor Hayward 7:23
A spiritual..
Elvira Hopper 7:24
yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 7:26
..guide that we talk about, but we don't really.. and within religion, it's more conceived, it's like as a as a 'woowoo thing'. Would you agree? Like, do you remember like being Roman Catholic like, were Angels commonly discussed?
Elvira Hopper 7:40
Yeah.Yeah, we did talk about Angels. When I was I remember going through catechism when I was little before getting my first communion that, that was my, I guess, second second sacrament Because baptism was my first. I was actually baptized on the second day of my life.
Eleanor Hayward 7:56
Wow.
Elvira Hopper 7:57
Which is so interesting.
Eleanor Hayward 7:57
Your parents were on the ball.
Elvira Hopper 7:58
Well, not my parents actually. I was born in Naples, Italy, and at that time, they there was earthquakes going on, apparently. Google it, check it out. August 10, '62. But apparently, there were, yeah, there was earthquakes. And my aunt who ended up being my godmother, said, 'You know, she can't die and not be a Christian. I'm going to take her to the church'.
Eleanor Hayward 8:23
Hmm.
Elvira Hopper 8:23
So she whisked me off to church, my mother was still in the hospital recovering from me. And, and she took me to the church and got me baptized. So it was like, yeah, that it was really ingrained in my family that that, you know, we had to be Christian and..
Eleanor Hayward 8:40
Baptism cleanses you have your original sin, is that the concept?
Elvira Hopper 8:42
Yeah, exactly. So okay. So like, basically she said, you know, 'she can't die a sinner'. Right? So yeah..
Eleanor Hayward 8:48
Yeah. Just a twisted concept.
Elvira Hopper 8:50
So twisted!
Both 8:50
LOL
Elvira Hopper 8:51
Anyway. But, so, so yeah, I think Catholic since day two, and yeah, so I went to a public school, but in order to get my, my second sacrament..
Eleanor Hayward 8:53
Catachism?
Elvira Hopper 8:54
Yeah, so I went to catechism to get my second sacrament, which was called First Communion. So yeah, I remember we talked about our Guardian Angels and there were other Angels and but there was a lot of darkness too right? And, and there was like, the whole concept of Hell and, and all of that, and it was really scary as a kid, like learning about this..
Eleanor Hayward 9:21
Fear of God!
Elvira Hopper 9:22
Yeah, yeah. And, and we had to behave a certain way, and be good. And so this is what the Catholic, you know, religion does is it is it instills fear, it instills a lot of guilt and shame, if you don't do things the way they want you to do it. And in my humble opinion, you know, the Church wants power, you know, the church, you know, you can go way back, the church was about money and power, and, you know,
Eleanor Hayward 9:48
Population control.
Elvira Hopper 9:48
Population control, yeah, exactly. And, and there was, there was just a lot of things there that really, you know, now that I consider myself Spiritual, I had my, my breakdown at the end of my last two years of my corporate life, where nothing helped me. I literally was in such a dark place mentally: depression, anxiety and panic disorder. And I had done a lot of personal development. I had done, I had considered myself quite religious at one point and so much so that I made my, my poor husband--now, 32 years--at that time, my boyfriend who became my fiancee, I made him convert to Catholicism because I wanted to be married.
Eleanor Hayward 10:31
Poor David.
Both 10:31
LOL
Elvira Hopper 10:31
Yeah. I wanted to I wanted to be married in the Catholic Church, I wanted a mass, right? It was that important to me then. However, back then I was more religious, I was more led by what others thought of me and what I was supposed to do and be a good girl and all of those..
Eleanor Hayward 10:50
'Supposed to's'
Elvira Hopper 10:50
Supposed to's, and the conditioning, right? And so when I hit my rock bottom, and, you know, nothing was helping me feel better. I was, I had depression, anxiety and panic disorder. I asked for a way out, that wasn't, you know, drugs, that wasn't therapy. For good reason. I couldn't go to those two modes, because nothing helped me religion and those beliefs did not take me back to my, to my you know, I used to be a happy, well, relatively happy person, even though I lived out of alignment. Religion didn't help! And and, you know, I had done other programs, like personal development, you know, Landmark Education, Tony Robbins, God bless both of those systems, because there's some good in them too. But they didn't help me either, right? So I was, I was meant to bring something new, and it came through me and it saved my life. It saved my sanity. And what it involved was, as an element of it, is spirituality,
Eleanor Hayward 11:50
Yes.
Elvira Hopper 11:50
Not religion, but spirituality. Considering that we are all divine beings, we are all brought here from a Divine Source, nobody is brought here by accident. And when we connect to our true Purpose, why we were brought here, that can completely turn around our lives. For me, it turned around my mental health, like quickly, it turned around my relationship health, you know, my.. David and I used to struggle all the time, because I lived out of alignment. Ego ran my show, back then, when I, when I shifted, when I had the breakdown in my last two years, that led to the breakthrough, I was shown that I'm a divine being, you're a divine being.
Eleanor Hayward 11:53
Ahh.
Elvira Hopper 11:53
This is why the Hindus bow to each other and say, Namaste. The divine in me honors the dividing you. Or the God in me honors the God in you. So I stopped believing that there is one God that is out there.
Eleanor Hayward 12:48
Yes.
Elvira Hopper 12:48
I started believing that God is inside me. God is inside you. God is inside everyone.
Eleanor Hayward 12:54
Everybody, give them the benefit of the doubt.
Elvira Hopper 12:56
Yeah. So that that belief alone truly, truly shifted me and connecting to my bigger purpose and and you know, the Law of Attraction was was huge, right? Do you want to be a 'Crap Magnet'? Or do you want to be a 'Miracle Magnet'? You get to choose.
Eleanor Hayward 13:10
Make the choice.
Elvira Hopper 13:11
Yeah, so these are the kinds of things that really are fundamental to The Love Your Vbe Miracle Mindset, which has become the foundation of The Love Your Vibe Transformation, of which you are an amazing mentor of, 'Miracle Mindset Mentor', and, and it's all about helping people to see their own power.
Eleanor Hayward 13:28
Yeah!
Elvira Hopper 13:28
It's helping people to get rid of all the conditioning of religion, of you know, you're not good enough of you know, shame and, and guilt and all those things that the Catholic Church is really famous for. And also Italian parents are famous for, you know, it's about letting go of, I'm so I can speak for myself here. It's about letting go of all those things that I'm not so that I can I can embrace who I truly am. And who I truly am is a divine being, you know?
Eleanor Hayward 13:56
Not a sinner?
Elvira Hopper 13:57
Not a sinner. Not, not full of shame, you know, not not good enough.
Eleanor Hayward 14:01
Yes.
Elvira Hopper 14:02
I am good enough. I am more than good enough. And so are you!
Eleanor Hayward 14:05
Born to be! In fact.
Elvira Hopper 14:06
Yeah. Say that again?
Eleanor Hayward 14:08
Born to be.
Elvira Hopper 14:09
Born to be..
Eleanor Hayward 14:10
Like you're divine. You're.. you're here with purpose..
Elvira Hopper 14:13
Yes, exactly. We're all born with purpose.
Eleanor Hayward 14:15
As a messenger of God..
Elvira Hopper 14:17
Yeah!
Eleanor Hayward 14:17
..in some way.
Elvira Hopper 14:18
Because we're all made by that one Creator. Whatever we believe that creator to be. Is it God? Is it source? Is it spirit? Is it universe? What.. what is that source? What do you believe? What do you what do you call that source?
Eleanor Hayward 14:30
Universe!
Elvira Hopper 14:30
Universe, okay. yeah! So there's people that use that word. I call mine different things on different days, to be honest, sometimes it's God. Sometimes it's universe. Sometimes it's spirit. Sometimes it's source. So actually, sometimes I, I say to clients, it's hilarious..
Eleanor Hayward 14:44
I like source too..
Elvira Hopper 14:45
Yeah, yeah. I say to clients, what does GUSS want you to do right now?
Eleanor Hayward 14:49
LOL
Elvira Hopper 14:50
G.U.S.S. God, universe, spirit source GUSS.
Eleanor Hayward 14:53
Ahhhhh.
Elvira Hopper 14:54
So it's, it's it's just my fun little way of having fun, because I love to have fun. But it's it's yeah, it's about realizing that we are all divine beings, we're here for a purpose. So let's stay out of our own 'f'n way, fear and ego'. And let's live in alignment with who we truly are. And let's make magic happen!
Eleanor Hayward 15:04
Mmhmm!
Elvira Hopper 15:12
Let's do what we're meant to do. So that to me is spirituality, right? That's not religion. So, I find that, you know, I am much more empowered with spirituality over religion. And it's not to say that, you know, religious people don't feel personal power. But I just invite them to say, 'Hmm, do I really feel that I am a divine being here for a unique purpose on the planet? Do I feel completely empowered? Or do I have to have a set of beliefs that God is out there? And I have to do a certain..
Eleanor Hayward 15:46
Ask for permission?
Elvira Hopper 15:48
Yeah. And do I have to do certain things to to be valued? To be, you know, accepted by my religion, right? So, so this is really, it's a question. I just, I want people to, to be thinking about it. And and so I invite everyone that's listening.
Eleanor Hayward 16:05
Curiousity.
Elvira Hopper 16:05
Yeah, yeah. It's just really, is religion bringing you happiness? Or are you like, there's a lot of recovering Catholics out there. I'll be honest with you, you know, if, if you feel you're a recovering Catholic, and you want to learn a little bit more about ways you can show up more empowered with spirituality versus religion, you know, connect with us, because this is this is what we do with our work. And yeah, do you want to say anything more about that, Eleanor?
Eleanor Hayward 16:34
I think historically, one of the best aspects of religion was community.
Elvira Hopper 16:39
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 16:39
To your original opening quote there.
Elvira Hopper 16:42
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 16:42
A sense of belonging.
Elvira Hopper 16:44
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 16:44
And a sense of group. And sharing food.
Elvira Hopper 16:50
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 16:50
You know?
Elvira Hopper 16:50
Breaking bread together.
Eleanor Hayward 16:51
Exactly.
Elvira Hopper 16:52
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 16:52
And whereas, interestingly enough, and that definition, spirituality was an independent thing.
Elvira Hopper 16:58
Oh, interesting, ok, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 16:59
So, being spiritual in a group..
Elvira Hopper 17:02
Is really powerful!
Eleanor Hayward 17:03
Is really powerful!
Elvira Hopper 17:05
LOL Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 17:05
Because instead of sitting around a circle saying what we should be, it's around, what are we?
Elvira Hopper 17:13
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 17:14
And what are we not? And instead of, you know, even confession being something that's privately done..
Yeah.
Elvira Hopper 17:22
..with, you know, a priest who's gonna forgive you. And I never, I never understood the idea, of you could be wicked your entire life, and be..
You can confess, and you're okay.
Eleanor Hayward 17:34
..awful to people, and you're on your deathbed, you can confess and you get into heaven. And like, that just doesn't make sense. So like the idea of karma.
Elvira Hopper 17:41
Yeah, there's a lot of hypocrisy. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 17:44
That made more sense to me. And, and I guess I resonate with being pagan.
Elvira Hopper 17:48
Hmm.
Eleanor Hayward 17:49
Because I believe in the power of the Earth.
Elvira Hopper 17:52
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 17:52
And Nature!
Elvira Hopper 17:53
Mama Gaia.
Eleanor Hayward 17:53
Exactly!
Elvira Hopper 17:54
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 17:55
And that we're all, I guess, animism, you know, that there's there's energy and animals and plants.
Elvira Hopper 18:00
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 18:01
We're all in this together. And giving again, giving people the benefit of the doubt and having respect.
Elvira Hopper 18:07
Yeah. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 18:08
And offering gratitude. I like the concept of offering grace..
Elvira Hopper 18:11
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 18:11
..before a meal. I think that's a beautiful practice.
Elvira Hopper 18:13
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 18:15
Instead of taking something and believing that you have dominion over it.
Elvira Hopper 18:20
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 18:20
I think that was, in religion, that it's like, 'oh, well, that animal's there to feed me'.
Elvira Hopper 18:25
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 18:26
And I'm thinking, well, how arrogant..
Elvira Hopper 18:28
The ego!
Eleanor Hayward 18:29
..is that?
Elvira Hopper 18:30
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 18:31
Exactly. So the ego, I find a very interesting concept, and where spirituality is more about humility. And I guess, historically, you know..
Elvira Hopper 18:41
Yeah,
Eleanor Hayward 18:41
Being, what is it, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, being repentant and being down on one knee before God. But that's a form of humility, which is often seen as weakness. That if you're down below, then you're not over and above, right? So it's like, there's just such a paradox.
Elvira Hopper 18:59
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 19:00
In ego and how it skews how we show up in community.
Elvira Hopper 19:03
Right, yes.
Eleanor Hayward 19:04
And are you there to be with others? Are you there to be..
Elvira Hopper 19:08
Over others.
Eleanor Hayward 19:08
..get one over on others?
Elvira Hopper 19:09
Yeah, yeah. And this goes, thank you for sharing that. This goes back to our, we've talked about 'power-with', right?
Eleanor Hayward 19:15
Yes.
Elvira Hopper 19:16
And what I love about spirituality is, it is power-with people. It is power with, you know, animals, like it's, we're all, we're all created by that one source. We're all one. We're all the same. Nobody is better than another. Like that's to me..
Eleanor Hayward 19:33
Yes.
Elvira Hopper 19:33
..what spirituality is about. And there's a certain peace in that. When you don't have to be over someone and you never have to feel under, you know, so power-over or power-under.
Eleanor Hayward 19:41
People-pleasing!
Elvira Hopper 19:42
Yeah, exactly. People-pleasing us, as with power-under right.
Eleanor Hayward 19:46
Yes
Elvira Hopper 19:47
Or bullying with, you know, power-over right?
Eleanor Hayward 19:49
Yes.
Elvira Hopper 19:50
And we see that a lot in the church, you know, like even even people that attend church, you know, like it's, it's about 'oh who got, you know, the best place' and you know, 'the pew at the front' and like there's just so many, you know, I'm sorry, I'm just I'm a little biased here, because I'm going back to my own religiosity of childhood. And there was a lot of mean girls in the church and, you know, telling you what to do, how to behave. And and even in the choir, I was in the choir, and there was just so much, you know..
Eleanor Hayward 20:16
Drama!
Elvira Hopper 20:17
Drama.
Eleanor Hayward 20:18
Drama, drama, drauma.
Elvira Hopper 20:19
So, you know..
Eleanor Hayward 20:21
Which is better than abuse.
Elvira Hopper 20:22
Yeah, that's true.
Eleanor Hayward 20:24
Because there's a lot of abuse...
Elvira Hopper 20:25
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 20:25
..in the church, too. Which is obviously..
Elvira Hopper 20:29
Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Don't get me started there, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 20:30
And I think.. it had to be said, though.
Elvira Hopper 20:32
Yeah, I know, it's true.
Eleanor Hayward 20:34
Because there's people who still show up every Sunday, and they're giving their money to an institution..
Elvira Hopper 20:38
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 20:39
..that internationally.. Colonialism is a very real part of our current ongoing unfolding history.
Elvira Hopper 20:47
Yeah, absolutely.
Eleanor Hayward 20:49
And something's got to shift. And I think it's the people within the institutions need to shift, the value system.
Elvira Hopper 20:55
Well, I'm hoping this conversation gets even one person to say, 'hey, you know, what, what they're saying feels more in alignment for me, then, then really following dogma..
Eleanor Hayward 21:05
Yes
Elvira Hopper 21:06
..and, and being part of this institution. It's lighter, what they're talking about feels lighter to me'.
Eleanor Hayward 21:12
Yeah.
Elvira Hopper 21:12
And when when it feels light, it's right.
Eleanor Hayward 21:14
Yes,
Elvira Hopper 21:15
You know, so? So move towards the things that make you feel light. So I want,
Eleanor Hayward 21:18
Thank you,.
Elvira Hopper 21:19
I'd love our listeners to really consider that. They don't have to just be something because they were baptized. And they've got to be that till they die.
Eleanor Hayward 21:26
That habit?
Elvira Hopper 21:27
Yeah. They can choose who they want to be. They don't have to be anything.
Eleanor Hayward 21:31
The power of choice.
Elvira Hopper 21:32
Yes. The power of choice. Awareness. Are you showing up in a way that's totally empowered in your life? Or have you given power away to the church? Have you given power away, to your parents? Have you given power away to society? You know, and, or, you know, can you see that, really, you can take your power back, you can even have power-with people. You can live as your authentic self, doing what you're meant to do, you know, your job is to excavate and find out what that is.
Eleanor Hayward 22:01
Yeah, it's a beautiful journey!
Elvira Hopper 22:04
Yeah! And and you lead people through that. And, and so do I, I do my one on one coaching, you work with groups.
Eleanor Hayward 22:10
Absolutely.
Elvira Hopper 22:10
And that's what, that's what we're so passionate about, we want to, we want to share this with the world. That's why we're doing this podcast so that people could see for themselves what's available to them. And they don't have to live by default. They don't have to live, you know, how they've always lived, you know? If they're curious, if they're, if they realize, you know, something doesn't feel right, it's kind of heavy, move towards other things that might be lighter and, and try them on for size. Like put them on, like a new coat, you know? See if the coat fits better. If it does keep it on. If it doesn't, take it off, right? So we are just sharing with you our ideas, our concepts, the things that have helped us, so that you can decide, 'hey, you know what, this kind of makes sense. I think I'd like to start, you know, a conscious path'. You know, 'I think I'd like to explore spirituality and see what's in it for me', right?
Eleanor Hayward 22:57
Mmhmm.
Elvira Hopper 22:57
Because when you start seeing what's in it for you, and you see the benefit, and how how much more peaceful you feel, how much your relationships can get better. You know, how much you know, maybe, yeah, like, your kids might see you differently, because you're more calm and relaxed and peaceful, as opposed to being stressed out. And, you know, always trying to, you know, please others and..
Eleanor Hayward 23:21
Yes. Be perfect.
Elvira Hopper 23:22
..be perfect, you know?
Eleanor Hayward 23:23
For being bad and wrong!
Elvira Hopper 23:25
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So when I was, excuse me. When I was.. excuse me. When I went to church, I was doing the only thing I knew how to do, right? I was brought up that way. And I had to go to church, and I had to confess and I had to do all these things. I didn't know any different. But today, thank, thanks, thanks to my blessed breakdown, I got these teachings that were not meant just for me. And now I'm sharing them with the world through amazing people like yourself. And we, they're just new concepts, they're ideas that, you know, for people that are new to their personal development journey. They're not that difficult to to practice. And, you know, people can try them on for size and see if it feels better, you know, so, does that make sense Eleanor?
Eleanor Hayward 24:16
Totally. Absolutely.
Elvira Hopper 24:17
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 24:18
And my brain just shifts to in between religion and spirituality. You can have a conversation of science..
Elvira Hopper 24:24
Oh! Ha ha.
Eleanor Hayward 24:25
..and looking at a study--circling around community--that I learned about Asch's Line Test.
Elvira Hopper 24:31
Okay.
Eleanor Hayward 24:32
So if you have two lines and you have one person in the room, your, your test subject, and you have six people who are coming into the room as plants.
Elvira Hopper 24:39
Okay,
Eleanor Hayward 24:40
And you're saying, 'hey, Elvira, which line is longer?
Elvira Hopper 24:43
Okay.
Eleanor Hayward 24:44
Statistically speaking, if all of the plants in the room say 'the shorter line is longer'..
Elvira Hopper 24:49
Okay.
Eleanor Hayward 24:49
..you are also, as the subject, also going to point to the incorrect answer..
Elvira Hopper 24:54
Oh!
Eleanor Hayward 24:55
..in order to be liked and approved by the group.
Elvira Hopper 24:58
Oh,
Eleanor Hayward 24:58
Than you are to be incorrect.
Elvira Hopper 25:00
Wow, isn't that interesting?
Sorry, than you are to be correct, pardon me.
So when you say plant, you mean people that have been put there, right?
Eleanor Hayward 25:06
Yes, exactly.
Elvira Hopper 25:06
Okay. Just I wanted you to explain.
Eleanor Hayward 25:07
Like there's there's a scientific term for that. It's not plant.
Elvira Hopper 25:09
Yes, yes. Okay.
Eleanor Hayward 25:10
The point being, we're more likely to go with the crowd than are to be correct.
Elvira Hopper 25:17
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 25:18
Because we want to be socially accepted.
Elvira Hopper 25:20
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 25:21
And conform.
Elvira Hopper 25:22
Yeah. Isn't that called mob mentality?
Eleanor Hayward 25:24
It, well..
Both 25:25
LOL
Elvira Hopper 25:27
Sorry, just going to put that out there.
Eleanor Hayward 25:31
And it's, well it's conformity.
Elvira Hopper 25:32
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 25:33
And I guess that, that's where, like..
Elvira Hopper 25:35
Becuase you want to please your family.
Eleanor Hayward 25:35
..your parents exactly, and everybody in your community is Catholic, then it's really hard...
Elvira Hopper 25:40
Yeah,
Eleanor Hayward 25:40
To totally strike out on your own. So it's better..
Elvira Hopper 25:43
That's a good point, Eleanor.
Eleanor Hayward 25:44
.. to go to what feels familiar, rather than what feels true.
Elvira Hopper 25:49
Yeah. Yes. Familiar versus true. Yeah. That's a powerful distinction.
Eleanor Hayward 25:54
So it does take some courage..
Elvira Hopper 25:56
It does!
Eleanor Hayward 25:57
..to look at those beliefs, one by one to say, 'oh, my gosh, do I actually believe this? Or is this just what I was told to believe'?
Elvira Hopper 26:04
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 26:05
And I think there are elements of religion that are universally true.
Elvira Hopper 26:11
Like love!
Eleanor Hayward 26:12
Like the power of love!
Elvira Hopper 26:13
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:13
And forgiveness.
Elvira Hopper 26:14
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:14
And sharing space. And we're all in this together.
Elvira Hopper 26:18
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:19
And whereas the dogma makes it about power.
Elvira Hopper 26:23
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:23
And control.
Elvira Hopper 26:24
Yeah, so true.
Eleanor Hayward 26:25
So it's about separating, what, 'the wheat from the chaff'. Isn't that?
Both 26:29
LOL
Elvira Hopper 26:29
Is that in the Bible?
Both 26:30
LOL
Elvira Hopper 26:30
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So very, very true.
Eleanor Hayward 26:33
And practicing spirituality in community.
Elvira Hopper 26:35
Yeah,
Eleanor Hayward 26:36
..can be very empowering..
Elvira Hopper 26:37
Thank you.
Eleanor Hayward 26:37
..to discuss those, those universal truths.
Elvira Hopper 26:41
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:42
And, and that conditioning to be,' do I actually believe this? Or was I told to believe this'?
Elvira Hopper 26:47
Yeah. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:48
And is it serving me? Or is it holding me back?
Elvira Hopper 26:51
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:51
And I think that's where spirituality is, is a beautiful path.
Elvira Hopper 26:56
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:56
And yet, we're probably gonna be called heretics. Haha.
Elvira Hopper 26:59
I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure someone's gonna be listening to this who's very Catholic, and is, just thinks we're nuts. LOL, you know?
Eleanor Hayward 27:06
Savages!
Elvira Hopper 27:07
Savages, heretics. So you know what, I'm willing to..
Put my finger in that holy water and it's probably going to boil!
Both 27:13
LOL
Elvira Hopper 27:14
You're hilarious! Well, you know..
Eleanor Hayward 27:16
I'm willing to be..
Elvira Hopper 27:17
Yeah?
Eleanor Hayward 27:18
..to walk my true path.
Elvira Hopper 27:19
Yep, same ere. Same here. I I know that it saved my life to be spiritual versus religious. That saved my life. So I have no choice but to live it and breathe it and talk about it because it's my truth.
Eleanor Hayward 27:32
Amen.
Elvira Hopper 27:32
And yeah. So thank you for this conversation, Eleanor. You are just such a blessing in my life, and I'm so glad we're doing this podcast.
Eleanor Hayward 27:42
Likewise. Thank you and my hands are in prayer position, just..
Both 27:45
LOL
Elvira Hopper 27:45
Let me put mine in prayer position too. LOL. Namaste.
Eleanor Hayward 27:53
Thank you so much for listening to The Love Your Vibe Podcast, A Revolution of Evolution. Please join us in The Retreat and Recreate to Evolve and Elevate Facebook Group for your daily dose of insight and inspiration. Learn more about The Love Your Vibe Transformation, a personal development SOULution for heart-centered people. Catch us, Elvira Hopper and Eleanor Hayward next time. Bye for now.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai