In this episode, Elvira and Eleanor speak about judgment versus discernment. Ego versus soul, and pointing fingers versus taking radical responsibility. We hope you enjoy our discussion!
Learn more about:
Elvira V. Hopper, Miracle Mindset CoacHealer
Eleanor Hayward, Holistic Facilitator
In this episode, Elvira and Eleanor speak about judgment versus discernment. Ego versus soul, and pointing fingers versus taking radical responsibility. We hope you enjoy our discussion!
Learn more about:
Elvira V. Hopper, Miracle Mindset CoacHealer
Eleanor Hayward, Holistic Facilitator
Elvira Hopper 0:05
Welcome to The Love Your Vibe Podcast. It's a Revolution of Evolution. You're in the right place, if you are a kind and heart-centered person, looking to learn new ways of showing up, aligned, authentic and fully self-expressed. If everyone did this work on the planet, don't you think it could be heaven on earth? I'm Elvira Hopper, and I'm in the studio with Eleanor Hayward. And we are so thrilled that you've joined us.
In this episode, Eleanor and I speak about judgment versus discernment. Ego versus soul, and pointing fingers versus taking radical responsibility. We hope you enjoy our discussion.
Eleanor Hayward 0:53
Hello Elvira!
Elvira Hopper 0:54
Hello, Eleanor!
Eleanor Hayward 0:55
Hello to our audience. Thank you so much for joining us today. I wanted to talk about the juicy topic of judgment versus discernment.
Elvira Hopper 1:05
Juicy.
Eleanor Hayward 1:07
I think I hope our audience does, too. Because judgment is something that's so prevalent in our culture, and is just a reflex. That if you see somebody who looks different than you, if you, you know, even in court, you know, it's like, there's this judgment that you are right, or you are wrong.
Elvira Hopper 1:30
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 1:30
And that is just it comes from ego. I think that's overall, the dynamic that we're getting at here. And I mean, in society, we, there's, I guess there's a place for it. I think that's what personal development is getting at, is that there's there's always a paradox, there's always a shade of gray. That, right and wrong is a perspective. Right? Would you agree?
Elvira Hopper 1:57
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Eleanor Hayward 1:59
Whereas discernment is more of a spiritual awareness. Comparing in judgment, that there tends to be walls, that if, if you're wrong, and because I want to be right, that's our ego. And so, whereas discernment from a spiritual perspective, is more about boundaries, because we are all entitled to our space. We're all entitled to our own privacy.
Elvira Hopper 2:33
Right, right.
Eleanor Hayward 2:34
Okay? So I'm circling around here, because ego will give us the right and wrong and the finger pointing, because in The Love Your Vibe Transformation we talk about, well, if you're pointing fingers at somebody else, then you've got two pointing at them, and six pointing back at you,
Right.
So how can I take responsibility for this? We tend to blame homeless people for being homeless, as a basic example, that, oh, they must have made a really bad decision. So therefore, they deserve whatever they get. And it even plays out in our in our prison system, that there's this, this hierarchy, this, you deserve whatever punishment is coming your way. But if you're really looking at it from a human rights standard, nobody deserves to be tortured and put into solitary confinement or you know..
Elvira Hopper 3:26
Yeah, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 3:27
..so it hurts my heart.
Elvira Hopper 3:28
It does. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 3:29
And so along my path of personal development, when I learned discernment, and recognizing my boundaries, I've learned that the more that I love myself, the more apparent my boundaries have become. Because we tend to want to take advantage of each other. That's the ego..
Elvira Hopper 3:46
Yeah, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 3:46
..as well. I think that's that right and wrong. It's a it's a psychological manipulation.
Elvira Hopper 3:51
Control dramas.
Eleanor Hayward 3:51
Control drama, exactly. So I hope everybody's following so far, circling around, because really what personal development brings us is that opportunity to become aligned.
Elvira Hopper 4:03
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 4:04
And authentic. And fully self expressed.
Elvira Hopper 4:07
Yeah, your true self. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 4:10
And so we get caught in our heads. I think that's really the ultimate dynamic of the ego is that we tend to hold our breath.
Elvira Hopper 4:18
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 4:18
And how do we take responsibility for those six fingers pointing back at us? How can I show up with compassion? How do I show up with empathy for other people?
Elvira Hopper 4:31
Right, right. Oh, that's beautiful. I love that.
Eleanor Hayward 4:35
And would you like to share your perspective on empathy and compassion? Yeah, on this topic?
Elvira Hopper 4:39
Yeah, for sure. So I think that the inner work truly allows us to show up with more empathy and compassion. Because when we learn to love ourselves and have self compassion, we can have compassion for others. It's truly hard to give anybody else something that we don't give ourselves.
Eleanor Hayward 4:57
Ah-ha! Eureka!
Elvira Hopper 4:58
Right? Yeah. And so I know for myself that I lived most of my life out of alignment, I was a people pleaser, trying to be what my parents wanted me to be, fit into their box of this healthcare professional, yada yada, and I wasn't living my truth. And therefore, I fell into a lot of control dramas, and I fell into a lot of, you know, trying to take power from others and judging others, and, and not having compassion for myself or self love. Like that just was non -existent in my world before I had my big breakdown and breakthrough, where I got The Love Your Vibe Miracle Mindset, divinely gifted. And so I lived out of alignment, and therefore, there wasn't self love, there wasn't self compassion. And I was very judgmental..
Eleanor Hayward 5:47
Ah ha!
Elvira Hopper 5:47
..you know, always pointing my fingers at other people making them wrong, making them bad, you know?
Eleanor Hayward 5:53
Yes, because you felt wrong and bad, on some level.
Elvira Hopper 5:54
Yeah. Well, because I wasn't in alignment, I wasn't being my true self. So, you know, I am so grateful for this work that came through me that that allowed me to, you know, learn self compassion and self love and, and create good boundaries with people and, and be able to say, you know, no, that doesn't work for me, this this is, this is what's working for me. And it's not blaming or shaming or judging. It's, it's about No, this is who I am. And this is my boundary. And that's coming from soul. You know, judgment comes from ego. Discernment comes from Soul. Right?
Eleanor Hayward 6:31
Mmhmm.
Elvira Hopper 6:31
Yeah. So when we are truly living in alignment with who we really are, and who we are, is love. And and if we can truly believe that, you know,
Eleanor Hayward 6:41
I do!
Elvira Hopper 6:41
I know, I know you do. And if we can truly believe that we're love, and we can have compassion, and we don't have to be judgmental, because we are, we are love therefore, you know, if we believe we're all love, if anybody doesn't believe that, they're just not seeing themselves clearly.
Eleanor Hayward 6:59
Mmhmm.
Elvira Hopper 6:59
But we hold space to see them as love as well. Right? So..
Eleanor Hayward 7:03
Absolutely!
Elvira Hopper 7:04
And that's what this inner work is about. Right?
Eleanor Hayward 7:06
It is.
Elvira Hopper 7:06
Yeah, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 7:07
And I think it's important to note that even ego and even judgment is a reflection of soul on some level, because it's there as part of us, as a self defense mechanism.
Elvira Hopper 7:21
How's that connected to soul? Sorry, help me understand?
Eleanor Hayward 7:23
So well, because everything's spirit.
Elvira Hopper 7:25
Okay.
Eleanor Hayward 7:26
Right. So, and..
Elvira Hopper 7:27
That's really deep Eleanor..
Eleanor Hayward 7:29
It is really deep!
Elvira Hopper 7:30
I'm not sure I'm that deep. But tell me more. I want to learn!
Eleanor Hayward 7:34
So because ego, we can't get rid of it. I think that's where along my personal development journey, I'm like, I've isolated ego is the problem. How do I get rid of it? I was judging my own ego.
Elvira Hopper 7:42
Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 7:44
Whereas that was part of my journey.
Elvira Hopper 7:46
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 7:47
That was part of my adventure. When I actually had a psychotherapist walk me through. Well, ego is trying to protect me. So why would I want to get rid of that?
Elvira Hopper 7:57
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 7:58
So the trick in personal development is to recognize when ego..
Elvira Hopper 8:03
Trick sorry, I don't like that word..
Eleanor Hayward 8:05
Our practice.
Yeah, ok.
The practice of personal development..
Elvira Hopper 8:08
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 8:09
..is recognizing when ego is speaking up, right. So, I can hear those voices in my head when I'm judging myself, because then I judge others.
Elvira Hopper 8:16
Mm hmm.
Eleanor Hayward 8:17
And psychologically speaking, ego is that self defense mechanism, this is our reptile brain. Yeah, that just..
Elvira Hopper 8:25
Wants to protect us.
Eleanor Hayward 8:26
..wants to protect us..
Elvira Hopper 8:27
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 8:28
And stereotypes are something that are very common in our world that I think is part of our, our racial identity, political crisis, on this other level, that we tend to judge others that are different from us. We're, we're very much group thinkers.
Elvira Hopper 8:48
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 8:48
But if you're not with us, then you're against us.
Elvira Hopper 8:49
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 8:50
And so whatever level of judgment that we place, whether it's your, your physical ability, your class, your race, your gender, your sex.
Elvira Hopper 9:00
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 9:00
Whatever "ism" you want to throw out there, your age. That then..
Elvira Hopper 9:06
Your size.
Eleanor Hayward 9:07
..I'm better. Exactly, yeah. Oh, my God, there's this hierarchy..
Elvira Hopper 9:10
Yeah,
Eleanor Hayward 9:11
..of better and worse. If you're not a white male, cisgendered, straight, rich, man.
Elvira Hopper 9:17
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 9:18
Then everything else is lesser than
Elvira Hopper 9:20
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 9:20
Because that's just how our culture has evolved.
Elvira Hopper 9:22
Yeah, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 9:24
That being said, there are some truth to stereotypes.
Elvira Hopper 9:27
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 9:28
And it's a it's a shortcut in our brain. It's a bias. So that if, you know, historically speaking, if I'm picking berries in the field, and I see a shadow that comes over my shoulder, this is the part of my brain that jumps into this fight or flight..
Elvira Hopper 9:44
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 9:45
..to protect me, before I ascertain, is this a saber toothed Tiger?
Elvira Hopper 9:49
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 9:49
Or my partner who's coming to help me,
Elvira Hopper 9:51
right.
Eleanor Hayward 9:52
So we tend to look at those shadows and we're like, we kind of judge it. And there are some truth of stereotypes but the The process of self development shows us and this is the sociology perspective, that if we believe the stereotype to be true, all of the time, that that becomes a prejudice.
Right?
Right. And that tends to become problematic when you're not giving people the benefit of the doubt with compassion, and empathy as we're discussing,
Elvira Hopper 10:22
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 10:22
And so when you act on the prejudice, it becomes a discrimination. So it really takes us challenging our biases, challenging our prejudices. So where's the stereotype? Where is this true? Like, for example, if I'm walking down the street, and I see somebody who's more intimidating looking, but I feel like I have to hold my hold my purse tighter? Yeah. That this person might be the biggest teddy bear who's coming towards me, but they see me clutch my purse.
Elvira Hopper 10:54
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 10:54
That that actually is a microaggression.
Elvira Hopper 10:56
Right. Right.
Eleanor Hayward 10:58
And, and that's how even like it can be racism, again, sexism.
Elvira Hopper 11:03
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 11:04
It's just taking be very heartbreaking. And and the thing is, how do you challenge somebody who has more power than you? Then it becomes a control, struggle,
Elvira Hopper 11:18
Control drama.
Eleanor Hayward 11:19
It's, it's heartbreaking. Really and truly, but when we can do the inner work and start to recognize, oh, I was wrong in that situation. Maybe I didn't have all of the information. Maybe I made a snap judgment? How can I give the benefit of the doubt and look to the extenuating circumstances that might be imposed upon this person who made this decision to commit a crime?
Elvira Hopper 11:42
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 11:43
As a basic example, we tend to want to blame criminals. It's their fault. But as we were talking about, if you don't heal, you end up bleeding on people who didn't cut you.
Right? Yeah.
And often this, because even crime can be an expression of poverty that can be passed down intergenerationally?
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
That even crime runs in families.
Yeah.
Right? Like, not to say that crime is correct or right. But again, if we're looking at what's black and white. What if somebody is stealing to feed their family? Right? You know, like, how do we approach this with more compassion, and remedial.. like remedial therapy, like how do we actually heal people? I saw a fantastic film with Michael Moore. And he talked about a prison system. I think it was called what, Where to Invade Next, was a fantastic film.
Wow.
And he actually went overseas, and it's like, like, where are these policies that we that we value in society, and they were implemented all over the world? So I went he went to went to Norway and looked at the prison system there, as an example, and how do you actually heal people so that it drops the so-called "recidivism rate" that drops like the reoccurrence rate,
Elvira Hopper 12:58
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 12:59
They're actually gonna go back into society and be productive human beings, and in some form, teaching them about trauma. I've seen other articles, how do we heal?
Yeah.
How do we heal society? Yeah, and personal development is is certainly one huge solution there. So are you following along? Or do you have any questions about that? Is that clear?
No, that makes sense. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I truly believe that. Yeah, if we are doing our inner work of healing our own traumas, you know, we, we we can truly be more compassionate to others. And, and we don't have to have, you know, some of these all the "isms" you you talked about, because, you know, it's, it's about, you know, getting into alignment with who you truly are, and, and, you know, listening to your body's wisdom, your, your hearts wisdom, and, you know, discerning, you know, what is something that is, is, you know, just a good boundary versus a judgement of another, you know, and I think the more we learn to get in touch with our hearts, with our souls with our bodies' wisdom, we will have a society that's less judgmental and more discerning. And I think that's just, you know, the betterment of, [excuse me], that's going to make a better humanity.
Yes, I agree. Yeah, I do.
Elvira Hopper 13:22
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 13:33
And as a my background as a massage therapist, that so many people are disconnected from their bodies, like I can remember like asking people questions to say, like a very specific question like, does your How does your body feel in the situation, where where is your pain? Worse? Where is it less, because a lot of people don't even know the answers?
Elvira Hopper 14:43
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 14:44
Because we're not really taught anatomy. Beyond the knee bone is connected to the ankle bone.
Right?
Versus like our neurological system, and our how our hearts actually have more connections than our brain.
Yeah.
That we have emotional intelligence that's there for us to..
Elvira Hopper 15:03
And in our gut too..
Eleanor Hayward 15:03
..discover. Yes, in our gut. Our brains connect from our, our digestive system tissue..
Elvira Hopper 15:04
I was going to say, listen to your gut, right?
Eleanor Hayward 15:04
So there really is wisdom in our gut, and that's often what we refer to as our intuition.
Elvira Hopper 15:15
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 15:15
But so often we're caught in our head, we're caught in our ego, and we're caught in this judgment..
Elvira Hopper 15:22
Yeah,
Eleanor Hayward 15:23
..that we don't shut up long enough to listen to, what does my heart have to say?
Elvira Hopper 15:28
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 15:28
What does my gut have to say?
Elvira Hopper 15:30
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 15:30
That that is really embodiment.
Elvira Hopper 15:32
Yeah, right.
Eleanor Hayward 15:32
That's really body wisdom.
Elvira Hopper 15:34
Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful.
Eleanor Hayward 15:37
Yay!
Elvira Hopper 15:38
And I know, Eleanor that, you know, your journey has been a lot about, you know, because you're such a smart person, and you're so intellectual, it's been getting out of your head and into your heart.
Eleanor Hayward 15:48
I am a recovering over thinker.
Elvira Hopper 15:51
Any, any, anyone like that out there? Yeah, so I love that we're having this discussion. Because really, it's about, you know, doing that inner work to connect to who you truly are, and, and, you know, stop making those, you know, rash judgments that are that are, it's just your ego, trying to protect yourself. But if you can bypass that, and move towards, you know, discernment, and really connecting, you know, deeper to your body's wisdom, and, and living from that place of, of your higher self. And, and, you know, just just making, you know, the best decisions for you, and for everyone around you, right? Because it's not just about you. But you do that by, by just doing that deeper work, and, and, you know, discernment versus judgment. So what do you really want to say about this?
Eleanor Hayward 16:46
I want to touch on a couple of points I made earlier, because part of me sees that this might be a naive conversation that I mentioned, crime, I mentioned, being in court and having a judge, thou shalt be right or wrong based on the evidence. And I want to emphasize that I do value the rule of law that we have in Canada, that's something that not all countries around the world have that benefit, and there are a lot of violent nations. And if you're abused, then that's just too bad. There's no process to examine the evidence in charge, and go through that process. So I want to emphasize that there's value there, I think. Between judgment and discernment, the point being that within judgment, if there's a hierarchy of right and wrong, and I mean, obviously, in society, you know, murder is wrong, rape is wrong. Like, we're not arguing that.
Elvira Hopper 17:45
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 17:45
What we're arguing is okay, well, now that this person has been traumatized, that they've had a hard upbringing, they have committed a crime, because some part of them thought that that was the best way that they could move forwards. So how can we give them the benefit of the doubt? And how can we help rehabilitate this person,
Elvira Hopper 18:01
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 18:01
Because our justice system has become a place to go and learn more skills to commit crime. So that was my point about Norway, and they were able to have a better rehabilitation system, so that we can introduce criminals into society in a way that they can be more self awarer..
Elvira Hopper 18:25
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 18:26
..with self development,
Elvira Hopper 18:27
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 18:29
Discernment on the other side of it, because there are people out there who are wanting to victimize others.
Elvira Hopper 18:38
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 18:38
And discernment is a way for us to with our personal development, instead of being super-vulnerable and trusting people and, and having the benefit of the doubt, like, again, there's paradox here. But if you're in a situation, and somebody is intending you harm, how can you breathe, and tune into our heart, and tune into our gut, and really trust our instincts that this person will cause me harm?
Elvira Hopper 19:05
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 19:06
And that I am being manipulated? Or that I can sense that..
Elvira Hopper 19:10
Yeah,
Eleanor Hayward 19:11
..on some level, I'm being cornered, how can I diplomatically remove myself from that situation, rather than allowing myself to be taken advantage of, without making them feel like they're bad, just in case I'm wrong? Personal Development provides us an opportunity to have a different perspective, that instead of jumping into that judgment that I am right, and you were wrong, because that's we're talking about is finger pointing, is really, how can I take a step back? How can I be more objective of this situation, even though this person might be trying to manipulate me, recognizing, as we were saying earlier, that people tend to bleed on those who don't cut them,
Elvira Hopper 19:57
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 19:58
And so instead of seeing this person as that they're bad and wrong, as you said. We're just tying together all of these knots here that having compassion for this person who has been more than likely wronged..
Elvira Hopper 20:13
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 20:13
..in their lifetime, maybe they're wronging other people, but don't they still deserve compassion? And empathy?
Elvira Hopper 20:20
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 20:21
Do they?
Elvira Hopper 20:23
Well, yeah, I think they do. Because I, when when you I know, Dr. Gabor Mate who is one of your favorites..
Eleanor Hayward 20:31
Sure is!
Elvira Hopper 20:32
..in terms of, you know, teaching us about trauma and being more trauma informed. Like, it's about having compassion for these people who are in jail. Like, for example, he talks about, you know, seeing them from the perspective of, they've gone through trauma, so as opposed to, you know, just judging them bad. How about seeing them as people who have experienced these very difficult circumstances. And when people are seen from that perspective, I believe they could actually shift. When they're actually, they feel safer in your in your presence.
Eleanor Hayward 21:10
Ahh!
Elvira Hopper 21:11
And you, you truly see them for the human beings that they are?
Eleanor Hayward 21:15
Yes!
Elvira Hopper 21:15
People.. I'm just getting chills as I say that! People do, people do rehabilitate. Like they they, they can. So I have hope for that. Right. Do you do you resonate with that?
Eleanor Hayward 21:25
Absolutely. And I was saying this to Stephan earlier, that I think the perspective that we have to unlearn and relearn is that people don't change.
Elvira Hopper 21:35
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 21:35
Once you're once you're an asshole, you're always an asshole. Leopards don't change their spots..
Elvira Hopper 21:40
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 21:41
..skunks don't change their stripes.
Elvira Hopper 21:42
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 21:43
But in a Gerontology class that I was studying at school, there are seniors who can learn to use technology.
Elvira Hopper 21:49
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 21:50
If they're motivated, because they want to connect with their family,
Elvira Hopper 21:53
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 21:53
So we can always learn up until the day we die, even as a senior.
Elvira Hopper 21:57
Yeah, absolutely.
Eleanor Hayward 21:57
Like, yeah, there's, again, there's gray area in there. But if you're motivated, because if you want to become a healthy component, healthy contributor to society, then you're more motivated, because you know, you have support with, with personal development and trauma recovery, versus if you know that you're going to be getting out of prison say, and, you know, the world's gonna treat you like crap anyway.
Elvira Hopper 22:20
Yeah,
Eleanor Hayward 22:21
That there are very little chances.
Elvira Hopper 22:23
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 22:23
That well, why wouldn't you just become a better criminal? And you don't get caught next time?
Elvira Hopper 22:27
Yeah. That's so sad.
Eleanor Hayward 22:28
Right? So it's, [sigh] it's a very complex and nuanced conversation..
Elvira Hopper 22:33
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 22:34
..but really, how do we rehabilitate people who are traumatized and Dr. Gabor Mate is an excellent..
Elvira Hopper 22:40
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 22:41
..authority on the subject in Canada. And I think there's a lot of value, and a lot of room for this discussion to grow. Because I don't know all the answers.
Elvira Hopper 22:50
No. We, we're not mental health professionals.
Eleanor Hayward 22:52
No!
Elvira Hopper 22:53
We just have a passion for personal development inner work. And we have our own experiences. And we we share what we know and what's helped us and yeah, and I really love, you know, the perspective of, you know, he sees everybody in prison as a human being as opposed to just a criminal, you know, and..
Eleanor Hayward 23:15
Amen.
Elvira Hopper 23:15
Yeah. Ah, anything else you want to say?
Eleanor Hayward 23:24
That I am grateful. And I have learned empathy, the hard way, like it really is something that I believe people can learn. But it's also a gift, that I can pick up on other people's energy. And I, ever since I was a little kid, I had a good BS detector.
Elvira Hopper 23:42
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 23:43
Like I could tell when people are lying.
Elvira Hopper 23:45
Yeah, yeah me too.
Eleanor Hayward 23:46
And it took, took some time to learn discernment..
Elvira Hopper 23:49
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 23:50
..to recognize they're not necessarily trying to manipulate me, that they're lying to convince me of something.
Elvira Hopper 23:57
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 23:57
But it became evident very early on that most people lie to themselves.
Elvira Hopper 24:02
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 24:02
And they lie, yet they lie to themselves, because we live in a society where it's like, well give me the pretty little lie, rather than the cold, hard truth.
Elvira Hopper 24:11
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 24:12
So
Elvira Hopper 24:13
What would you rather have?
Eleanor Hayward 24:14
What would you choose?
Elvira Hopper 24:15
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 24:16
Comment down below! [laughing]
Elvira Hopper 24:19
I'd rather have the cold hard truth.
Eleanor Hayward 24:21
I would as well.
Elvira Hopper 24:22
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 24:23
Because I don't want an echo chamber.
Elvira Hopper 24:24
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 24:25
Like, I'd rather talk to people and hear what their perspective is. Because maybe it's something I haven't considered.
Elvira Hopper 24:30
Yeah, yeah.
Because if you're just gonna tell me what I want to hear, then that's a very superficial hollow..
Yeah. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 24:37
..worlds that is, Do you want to learn or do you want to be right?
Elvira Hopper 24:41
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 24:41
And I would much rather learn, than always believe that I'm right. Because that's ego. Yeah, that's a form of judgment.
Elvira Hopper 24:47
Yes exactly. And you've taught me so much. Like I've known you for a few years now. And, you know, you know so much about so many things that I've just never delved into and you know, I just love doing this podcast with you because I'm learning as we're going along too, so..
Eleanor Hayward 25:01
Well, likewise. And that's synergy! That's..
Elvira Hopper 25:03
Yeah!
Eleanor Hayward 25:03
..the beauty of a world where everybody does their personal development.
Elvira Hopper 25:06
Yeah.
Because you can hold your tongue..
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 25:09
..and open your mind.
Elvira Hopper 25:10
Yeah, love that!
Eleanor Hayward 25:11
See a different perspective!
Elvira Hopper 25:12
Hold your tongue, and open your mind! You can make a meme out of that!
Eleanor Hayward 25:16
Hashtag! [laughing]
Elvira Hopper 25:19
Anything else you want to say before closing? Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 25:21
I just want to repeat the message of stereotypes.
Elvira Hopper 25:25
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 25:26
..being a shortcut in our brain, that's to save time..
Elvira Hopper 25:29
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 25:30
..because in a life or death situation, that snap judgment can save your life.
Elvira Hopper 25:33
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 25:33
So there are truth to stereotypes.
Elvira Hopper 25:35
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 25:36
But if you have time to reflect, and breathe, and say, Hey, maybe this isn't always true. How can I give the benefit of the doubt?
Elvira Hopper 25:44
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 25:44
Because if you believe stereotypes to be the absolute truth, it becomes a prejudice.
Elvira Hopper 25:50
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 25:51
And prejudice is, it can be very harmful.
Elvira Hopper 25:56
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 25:56
Because you're not giving people the benefit of the doubt. And then you end up hurting people. And then so if you act on a prejudice, with your words, with your actions, even violence, that that becomes discrimination. And that is, can be a crime.
Elvira Hopper 26:13
I don't understand how violence is discrimination. Sorry. Help me understand that?
Eleanor Hayward 26:17
So if I punch you..
Elvira Hopper 26:20
Yeah [laughing].
Eleanor Hayward 26:21
Because I think you did me wrong.
Elvira Hopper 26:23
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 26:24
Because you're different from me.
Oh, okay. Yeah.
That, or even verbal assault..
Elvira Hopper 26:29
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:29
And it can be very harmful to people. It can traumatize people.
Elvira Hopper 26:33
Yeah, there's a lot of that happening right now.
Eleanor Hayward 26:36
Because, we're not taking radical responsibility for ourselves, and our trauma, we're gonna project it onto others.
Elvira Hopper 26:41
Exactly. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:42
So the inner work and the personal development is a process of examining that, that bag of bricks that we're carrying around..
Elvira Hopper 26:50
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:51
..because if we're held down by stress and trauma, then even just a minor inconvenience can be enough..
Elvira Hopper 26:57
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 26:57
..to want to throw a brick at someone!
Elvira Hopper 27:01
You're gonna take that brick out of your backpack and throw it at someone. Right?
Eleanor Hayward 27:04
Exactly!
Elvira Hopper 27:05
Yeah, as opposed to just laying it down. And then, you know, creating a nice little pathway for yourself. Right?
Eleanor Hayward 27:10
Exactly. I love that analogy! I hope that makes sense.
Elvira Hopper 27:13
I know. You came up with that. It was so great. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 27:16
Well, I hope that makes sense for people.
Elvira Hopper 27:17
Yeah, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 27:18
Please feel free to ask us any questions!
Elvira Hopper 27:20
Yeah, absolutely!
Eleanor Hayward 27:21
You're so beautiful, Elvira. You're, you've you inspired me so much.
Elvira Hopper 27:24
So are you Eleanor! I love you.
Eleanor Hayward 27:25
I love you too.
Thank you so much for listening to The Love Your Vibe Podcast, A Revolution of Evolution. Please join us in the Retreat and Recreate to Evolve and Elevate Facebook Group for your daily dose of insight and inspiration. Learn more about The Love Your Vibe Transformation, a personal development SOULution for heart-centered people. Catch us, Elvira Hopper and Eleanor Hayward, next time. Bye for now.