Bullying isn't just about kids in schools, bullying can happen anywhere. As adults, we can bully, we can be bullied. Mean Girls and Mean Boys of all ages use similar tactics, sometimes with tragic consequences. So we'd like to share our take on this phenomena, and hopefully share some insights that can support you as well. By practicing our inner work, we can learn to love our vibe, tear the kick-me-sign off our backs and develop bully Teflon!
Learn more about:
Elvira V. Hopper, Miracle Mindset CoacHealer
Eleanor Hayward, Holistic Facilitator
Bullying isn't just about kids in schools, bullying can happen anywhere. As adults, we can bully, we can be bullied. Mean Girls and Mean Boys of all ages use similar tactics, sometimes with tragic consequences. So we'd like to share our take on this phenomena, and hopefully share some insights that can support you as well. By practicing our inner work, we can learn to love our vibe, tear the kick-me-sign off our backs and develop bully Teflon!
Learn more about:
Elvira V. Hopper, Miracle Mindset CoacHealer
Eleanor Hayward, Holistic Facilitator
Elvira Hopper 0:05
Welcome to the love your vibe podcast. It's a Revolution of Evolution, you're in the right place, if you are a kind and heart centered person, looking to learn new ways of showing up, aligned, authentic and fully self expressed. If everyone did this work on the planet, don't you think it could be heaven on earth? I'm Elvira Hopper, and I'm in the studio with Eleanor Hayward, and we are so thrilled that you've joined us.
In this episode, Eleanor and I speak about bullying. Bullying isn't just about kids in schools, bullying can happen anywhere. As adults, we can bully, we can be bullied. So we'd like to share our take on this phenomena, and hopefully share some insights that can support you as well.
So Eleanor, we're going to talk about bullying. Yeah, so bullying, right? It's not just for kids anymore?
Eleanor Hayward 1:08
Mmmm.. No, unfortunately, it seems to be the way of the world.
Elvira Hopper 1:12
Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about how bullying is affecting us and how disempowering it is.
Eleanor Hayward 1:20
Juicy.
Elvira Hopper 1:20
And, you know, and of course, we're going to talk about what we believe our solution is for for bullying, is, you know, obviously, to do the deeper work. But let's just talk about the issue right now. So, so, you know, we talk about, you know, the mean-girl, the mean- boy, right? We know about the, the one that shows up that wants to have all the power, all the control within groups, right? The alpha male, the alpha female, right? So, so talk about what that's, you know, what it's meant to you in your life to have that kind of person in your life? Or were you that kind of person?
Eleanor Hayward 1:56
I was that kind of person as a kid, because I think it's really common, like there's bullying.. bullying starts at home.
Elvira Hopper 2:03
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 2:04
And I think it's, I think it's natural, because that's just the way our culture has evolved. That, as I said, in the last episode, that what we generally think of as love is too often control. It's a form of "I'll love you if", "I'll l love you when", rather than a real unconditional, nurturing acceptance. It's become a, a tool of manipulation.
Elvira Hopper 2:27
Yeah, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 2:28
And manipulation is a form of bullying.
Elvira Hopper 2:30
Yeah. It is. It is. Control, manipulation and control, right? You want people to do what you want. So you will show up in a way that you know, whether it's covert, or overt, it's all about getting getting the control, getting the power? And why? Because you don't feel your own power.
Eleanor Hayward 2:51
No..
Elvira Hopper 2:51
So you need to take it from another
Eleanor Hayward 2:53
..because we're not taught empowerment. Right? In our culture yet. I think we're getting there.
Elvira Hopper 2:58
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 2:58
And I think bullying is raising its head because it's obvious at school. And we talk about, like, you know, beating other kids up. And I remember at the high school I went to, it was the bird-bath. You know, when..
Elvira Hopper 3:10
Oh, really? What's that the bird bath?
Eleanor Hayward 3:12
You pick up the kid and you stick them in the fountain?
Elvira Hopper 3:14
Oh, no! I never experienced that one..
Eleanor Hayward 3:17
Oh, god. No. I mean, I got pushed into my locker, you know, and theres.. So the mean-girls, as I learned in sociology, girls are more likely to socially exclude their peers. And that's a form of, and I did that.
Elvira Hopper 3:31
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 3:32
In elementary school. I remember I would, at lunchtime, it would be like, well, let's have lunch...
Elvira Hopper 3:37
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 3:38
..but just you. Yeah, not you. And, and I would trade it up. And and I don't know, I guess I got something out of that. And I think James Redfield in The Celestine Prophecy was a really big influence for me. That it's a form of, it's a control drama.
Elvira Hopper 3:52
Yeah. Power-over.
Eleanor Hayward 3:52
It's a way to actually, on some level sucking energy out of people.
Elvira Hopper 3:58
Right.
Eleanor Hayward 3:59
And I wish we could measure this subtle energy.
Elvira Hopper 4:01
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 4:01
I think that would be phenomenal. But we can feel it. You can feel when somebody is trying to manipulate you. But until you're actually empowered, you tend to go along with it rather than challenge it.
Elvira Hopper 4:10
Yes, exactly.
Eleanor Hayward 4:11
Because we're so hardwired for conformity.
Elvira Hopper 4:15
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 4:15
So that we're socially accepted. That we really want that even at our own shortcoming. And even at our own risk.
Elvira Hopper 4:21
Yeah,.
Eleanor Hayward 4:21
We're willing to be wrong, rather than we're willing to be ostracized. Yeah, that's just the science.
Elvira Hopper 4:26
Exactly and that's why the bystanders, the enablers, actually allow the bullies to continue, because they don't want to stand up to it, right. It's like, you know, he, he or she with the most power wins, you know, and and they just let they let the bully go ahead. And and, you know, pick on someone because they're, you know, lest they be picked on themselves.
Eleanor Hayward 4:51
Exactly.
Elvira Hopper 4:51
And so and then, you know, sometimes the enablers the, the the bystanders, you know, they're usually the weaker people that want to be like that bully, you know, in a way so they will kind of kiss up to the bully in order to be accepted.
Eleanor Hayward 5:06
Oh yeah!
Elvira Hopper 5:06
That film Mean Girls was great.
Oh my god, right?
Eleanor Hayward 5:08
Demonstrated those dynamics..
Elvira Hopper 5:10
Yeah, yeah, really well.
Eleanor Hayward 5:11
..that we're all familiar with, what we're talking about it.. and you've been corporate bullied..
Elvira Hopper 5:16
Yes, yes, exactly.
Eleanor Hayward 5:17
..in your career, but I think what we don't talk about is bullying in politics..
Elvira Hopper 5:22
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 5:22
..even, that this is our, our leadership of our country, of our of our world. I mean, we talk about diplomacy.
Elvira Hopper 5:30
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 5:30
But when we have partisanship, there's just this this loggerheads of dissent and contempt. And there's this condescension and finger-pointing and..
Elvira Hopper 5:41
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 5:42
..so what we wanted to talk about today are some of the tactics..
Elvira Hopper 5:44
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 5:45
..that bullies tend to pull..
Elvira Hopper 5:46
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 5:47
..so that you can start to recognize that when it's happening to you, because it's, it's hard to stand up to bullies.
Elvira Hopper 5:54
Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. Absolutely. And for me, it was doing my inner work that, that allowed me to stand up and and to tear the kick-me-sign off my back. This is what we talk about in the work that we do is, is to realize, you know, who are you truly are you the person that they're bullying? Are you the person that they're, you know, because I was bullied corporately, and I was, you know, gaslit and I was ostracized, and I was marginalized. And, you know, all those..
Eleanor Hayward 6:23
Mocked?
Elvira Hopper 6:24
Yeah, I was mocked. I was humiliated, you know, because the guy that that bullied me at work, he wanted the boss's job, and I competed. And it got ugly, politically, because he thought, you know, I was trying to take him down, I thought he was trying to take me down, it was a misunderstanding. Instead of fixing it, he was just an alpha male and said, nope, I'm just going to completely, you know, put her on the side, pretend she doesn't exist anymore. And that's how people started treating me. And that's how I was treating myself. Because I didn't do the inner work at that point of learning to love myself, and honor myself, and live consciously so that I had no kick-me-sign on my back. Because, you know, that's what happens, you know, when we aren't living consciously, when we're not doing this inner work, we are a target for bullies, if we're not strong in our, in our in ourselves. In and confident, you know, and, and this is what I noticed, when I was being bullied corporately, then, by walking around with this, you know, energetic or invisible kick-me-sign on my back..
Eleanor Hayward 6:29
Mmhmm.
Elvira Hopper 7:29
..I started getting bullied in another area of my life. And, and then it was like, Oh my God, you know, I am being shamed and humiliated and bullied over here. I'm being shamed, humiliated, bullied over here. And, you know, two years of depression, anxiety and panic disorder, because I was, you know, I am a kind, heart centered person, I couldn't deal with the fact that these people that used to really liked me don't like me anymore. And, and I, I went into a dark place of questioning myself in my existence. And it was hard to get out of bed some days..
Eleanor Hayward 8:02
Mmhmm.
Elvira Hopper 8:02
..because I just felt like, like, lower than this rug right here. Like, it was, it was an awful place to live..
Eleanor Hayward 8:10
Yes.
..and I am super grateful for it, because it helped me to get out of that inauthentic life because I was being bullied because I lived out of alignment. I was a target. This is what happens. You see, when we're not living in alignment, we can become targets for bullies. We, when we're not strong in ourselves, can be susceptible to the Mean Girls and the Mean Boys. Right? Would you agree?
I would agree.
Elvira Hopper 8:36
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 8:37
And you taught me to have bully Teflon.
Elvira Hopper 8:39
Yes.
Eleanor Hayward 8:39
Was one of the juiciest insights. I'm like, Oh, if I had bully Teflon, what would it look like? And I was like, well, it's gonna have rainbows and sparkles.
Elvira Hopper 8:52
You're the best!
Eleanor Hayward 8:52
Because it's been said that they can't hurt you unless you let them.
Elvira Hopper 8:56
Yes.
Eleanor Hayward 8:57
And what does that really mean?
Elvira Hopper 8:59
Yeah, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 9:00
Because it can be relentless sometimes. And so really what the inner work does, what the personal development, is a path to resilience.
Elvira Hopper 9:07
Yes, I love that, yeah
Eleanor Hayward 9:08
And how can you resist? And and honestly, I find since I've really built this resilience, people don't even try.
Elvira Hopper 9:16
It's true! And like those two people that believe me, Eleanor, they think I'm great now because I tore the kick-me-sign off, I became unbulliable, or as I like to say unfuckwithable. Because that is that is what happens when we take our kick-me-sign off, and we stop seeing ourselves as a victim. When we stop seeing ourselves as lesser than. When we start seeing ourselves as power-with people
Eleanor Hayward 9:39
Ah ha!
Elvira Hopper 9:40
As opposed to power-under. I'm not good enough, you're better than me,
Eleanor Hayward 9:44
The victim mentality..
Elvira Hopper 9:45
The victim mentality. And, you know, and sometimes the victim turns into the bully because they can
Eleanor Hayward 9:51
On a dime.
Elvira Hopper 9:51
Oh, yeah, it can happen that quickly. Where they feel so disempowered, they want to have power-over someone else, right?
Eleanor Hayward 9:57
Yes!
Elvira Hopper 9:57
So it's like the person being kicked at work, goes home and kicks the cat, right? Because they can, right? I mean or yells at that the kid.
Eleanor Hayward 10:04
It's true!
Elvira Hopper 10:04
Right. And that's what happens right? When we don't do our inner work. We are bulliable and we are bullies.
Eleanor Hayward 10:10
Yes.
Elvira Hopper 10:11
And/or we're martyrs, where we try to save other people because that gives us, you know, an ego boost, right?
Eleanor Hayward 10:17
Juicy ego triangle, shout out to Stephen Carpman!
Elvira Hopper 10:21
Yes, yes, Stephen Carpman look that up! Yeah. Yeah, it's really, really juicy. And yeah, so I really, you know, I'm so grateful that I had a chance to experience that being bullied my last two years of corporate, like a 15 year old girl. I was a 40 some-odd year old woman, and I was being bullied like a 15 year old girl, because I understood the dynamics so well. And I was able to shift out of that low vibration of being bullied. And now there's a system that came through, that's not only helped me, but it's helping so many other people globally. The Love Your Vibe Miracle Mindset is just a way of tearing the kick-me-sign off your back, it's a way of standing up and owning your power. It's a way of, of, you know, doing that inner work, you know, and having good boundaries, and all those great things that we do in our work. And when you do that, the bullies just leave your life because you're not, you're no longer bulliable, right? And so that this is what we want to teach kids as well. So I'm working with with my beautiful colleague, a woman that wants to actually facilitate this work, Jackie Brown..
Eleanor Hayward 10:23
Shout out! Jackie Brown, best in town!
Elvira Hopper 10:21
Yeah, shout out to her. Jackie Brown best in town. She's of Jackie Brown Books. She's a publisher. She's a ghost writer. And she is, we're coming together and we're co-creating a series for the schools to help kids..
Eleanor Hayward 10:24
Phenomenonal..
Elvira Hopper 10:24
..to take back their power from bullies. Because let's face it, Eleanor, there's kids still killing themselves because they're being bullied. And to me, that is just an absolute horrendous thing that really shouldn't exist anymore.
Eleanor Hayward 10:38
No.
Elvira Hopper 11:57
Like, I truly see a world where bullying is no longer tolerated.
Eleanor Hayward 12:00
Suicide is another crisis that we didn't mention in our last episode, and, and I mean, I suffered from suicide ideation.
Elvira Hopper 12:07
Yeah. So did I. Yeah, absolutely.
Eleanor Hayward 12:10
Truly, we tend to observe suicide, we even talk about committing suicide. Because it was a crime historically, that if you if you survived your attempts, then you would go to jail or be fined..
Elvira Hopper 12:23
Oh, my gosh..
Eleanor Hayward 12:24
..historically-speaking like..
Elvira Hopper 12:25
I didn't realize that, really?
Eleanor Hayward 12:26
..it's so twisted, that's why it's "committed". So the language is shifting to "attempted" and "completed".
Elvira Hopper 12:32
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 12:32
And it's not something that somebody is doing to hurt anybody. It's they want to stop their own pain.
Elvira Hopper 12:37
Yeah, exactly. Because they don't know what else to do, right?
Eleanor Hayward 12:41
And our mental health system is not super equipped, it's not accessible..
Elvira Hopper 12:46
Yeah, for a lot of people
Eleanor Hayward 12:48
..and what we love about The Love Your Vibe Transformation, I think, is community.
Elvira Hopper 12:51
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 12:51
But that's really one of our, our values, because this work is very challenging.. The inner work.
Elvira Hopper 12:56
It can be!
Eleanor Hayward 12:56
We're socially hardwired to need each other..
Elvira Hopper 13:00
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 13:00
..that we've evolved this way as a, as a society. And so when you can vulnerably share your weaknesses, and your traumas. And somebody witnesses you with non-judgement,
Elvira Hopper 13:12
yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 13:13
That that's the key to safe space..
Elvira Hopper 13:15
It is.
Eleanor Hayward 13:16
..to just be observed, and witnessed in that discomfort that, that's healing.
Elvira Hopper 13:21
Yes.
Eleanor Hayward 13:22
You can breathe..
Elvira Hopper 13:23
and you can let it go. Because once it's out..
Eleanor Hayward 13:25
..and heal.
Elvira Hopper 13:26
Yes! Because any shame that you have that's revealed in public, is no longer shame.
Eleanor Hayward 13:32
If you don't own it..
Elvira Hopper 13:33
Yeah!
Eleanor Hayward 13:34
..but you have to learn how to integrate it.
Elvira Hopper 13:35
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 13:35
I think..
Elvira Hopper 13:36
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 13:36
And heal it, rather than, because you can only be shamed, if you feel ashamed.
Elvira Hopper 13:40
Right, exactly.
Eleanor Hayward 13:42
Because otherwise the bully Teflon, it kind of rubs off and says like, Thanks, but I don't own that.
Elvira Hopper 13:47
Yeah, yeah, it's true. You have to embody it. And and it is it's it's really, really.. ah yeah, I can talk forever about this. But But I, I do want to say that, you know, what I love about this work, you know, that Jackie and I are doing specifically is that..
Eleanor Hayward 14:02
Oh, yes!
Elvira Hopper 14:02
Yeah, just going back to the kids, like there's kids killing themselves because they don't have the teachings and tools. Right. And we want to give them the simple tools that they can keep in their toolbox so that they can pull them out and go oh, yeah, that person is trying to gaslight me right now. Oh, yeah, that person is trying to manipulate me right now. That person is trying to marginalize me right now. Right? And there's a whole list of them right it's it's all about giving them the insights the like shining a light on all the different tactics that bullies use. So guess what, when there's a light shone on these things, it's like the cockroaches right? They just disappear because there's a light on right?
Eleanor Hayward 14:38
Yeah!
Elvira Hopper 14:38
So we want it we want to give kids these tools..
Eleanor Hayward 14:41
Recognizing those tactics.
Elvira Hopper 14:42
Yeah, recognize them so that they don't have power over them. Right? So that we we help kids to take back there power. We help kids to have power-with people, because when you have power-with someone, no one can bully you.
Eleanor Hayward 14:54
No..
Elvira Hopper 14:55
So I'm just going to drop that right there.
Eleanor Hayward 14:56
And you said also the parents and the teachers.
Elvira Hopper 14:58
Yes. Because you know what? A lot of them are being bullied. There's a there's a bully culture that happens in schools.
Hmm..
Sorry, I'm just going to call it what it is. I've had exposure to a lot of teachers. And I've spoken to, you know, conferences where there's been, you know, people that worked at, at, at the schools, and they all say the same thing. There is a bully culture in schools. And it's, it's just what happens when people aren't doing their inner work, they have to take power away from others. So there's, there's, you know, parents that are bullying, that the teachers, the teachers, you know, there's, there's principals, bullying teachers, there's, there's, you know, the, I mean, it's just, it's, it's awful. I mean, I don't want to go too much into it. But suffice it to say, we can do better. If we can serve the the high school kids with their own version of this of this work, a handbook, the elementary kids, because it starts in elementary school. If we can, we can, you know, nip it in the bud, you know, educate them on on what's happening, and let the teachers and parents know as well, because, you know, it's happening in their worlds, right? Like, adults do bully others, unless we learn to tear, they kick-me-sign off our backs, and become unbulliable. And unless we do the inner work, so that we don't have to bully another and take their power away, we will, we will be bullied till we die, or we will bully till we die. So I truly believe this work is so critical to our well-being and, and to create a world where bullying is no longer tolerated.
Eleanor Hayward 16:33
No. But I think what my big Ah-Ha, doing the personal development, the inner work, was that I bullied myself.
Elvira Hopper 16:41
Yeah, exactly.
Eleanor Hayward 16:43
And it was in my own psyche that I kicked myself. And because I felt layers of shame that I felt like I deserved the crap that I would throw at myself, you know? And there's like conscious bullying, like I said, like in my youth that I would consciously make a decision to bully other people, which is twisted in and of itself. As I learned to heal that conscious bullying, I also learned that we unconsciously bully others when we feel threatened,
Elvira Hopper 17:12
Right!
Eleanor Hayward 17:13
So when I'm feeling triggered, that's when I would be passive aggressive.
Elvira Hopper 17:16
Yeah. Yeah. There's another bully tactic, passive aggressive.
Eleanor Hayward 17:22
God, but it was really because bullying myself.
Elvira Hopper 17:24
Yes, exactly.
Eleanor Hayward 17:26
And that is my vulnerable, radical responsibility.
Elvira Hopper 17:30
Yeah, yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 17:31
Now that I catch on to what those voices sound like, now, I will.. I will never perpetrate that dynamic again.
Elvira Hopper 17:41
Because you're so aware, right? Like, you are so conscious, you're living consciously. This inner work is about living consciously. So that you can have power-with, you don't have to have power-over someone.
Eleanor Hayward 17:51
Yes.
Elvira Hopper 17:52
You don't have to be power-under..
Eleanor Hayward 17:54
Power-under.
Elvira Hopper 17:55
..you can have power-with so yeah, so this is such important work. And and we can't get power-with unless we truly connect to who we truly are. And see that we..
Eleanor Hayward 18:05
That's diplomacy.. when we can really have power-with and I've heard the best leader is not somebody who can convince other people that their idea is the best, because I think even that convincing is kind of a form of manipulation.
Elvira Hopper 18:16
Yeah, for sure.
Eleanor Hayward 18:16
But it's who can hold safe space for the room for the best idea..
Elvira Hopper 18:19
Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 18:20
to emerge..
Elvira Hopper 18:21
Right. Yeah.
Eleanor Hayward 18:22
So that there's power-with
Elvira Hopper 18:23
That's right. That's right. Oh, I love that. And it's like, you know, yeah, I don't want to get too too, you know, into another topic, but there's like, there's your solution, my solution, and then there's another solution, which..
The higher solution?
..is coming from above, yeah. And so I think that diplomacy is holding space for, for the best for all, you know, and, and that's, and that's really, really critical in order to, yeah, it's, it's, it's critical to do this work so we can get to that kind of, you know, solution SOULution is, as we like to call it,
Eleanor Hayward 18:57
Intuitive.
Elvira Hopper 18:57
Yeah. And, and use use the the spirit solution that that, you know, whatever you believe in, our higher power gives us, you know, a really good solution. If we are out of our own way, as I like to say, our own f'n way, fear and ego, right? When we're out of fear and ego and we're living aligned authentically ourselves, we get really good solutions, because they're, they're gifted to us.
Eleanor Hayward 19:19
Yes!!
Elvira Hopper 19:20
Right? And we're not bulliable, you know, we have bully Teflon. You know, we don't have kick-me-signs on our back. And so, yeah. So if if anybody is listening to this, and you know, whether their kids are being bullied, whether you're being bullied at work, or socially, you know, we see this happening in network groups all the time. You know, there's a way out of this, the way out of it, is by going deeper in your own inner work, and and figuring out who you truly are, and why you're here. And it's like, everything else just falls into place, and the bullies just kind of go away. Does that resonate?
Eleanor Hayward 19:54
Amen!
Elvira Hopper 19:54
Yeah. Amazing. So you know what, let's just leave this here, Eleanor and say um, I want to say thank you so much for having this discussion with me and..
Eleanor Hayward 20:04
so juicy!
Elvira Hopper 20:04
Yay!
Eleanor Hayward 20:05
Thank you for listening everyone!
Elvira Hopper 20:07
Thank you everyone. Take care, bye bye, see you next time.
Eleanor Hayward 20:11
Thank you so much for listening to The Love Your Vibe Podcast, a Revolution of Evolution. Please join us in The Retreat and Recreate to Evolve and Elevate Facebook Group for your daily dose of insight and inspiration. Learn more about The Love Your Vibe Transformation, a personal development SOULution for heart-centered people. Catch us, Elvira Hopper and Eleanor Hayward next time. Bye for now.